Hi everybody. We're here to introduce Week 2. We're also here to really get down and dirty and talk about some real roadblocks that we've experienced, that we've seen and to think through how we can navigate these various roadblocks. Shawn and I want to make this a real conversation we have not practiced or rehearsed anything. This is a conversation happening between the two of us. By the way, I only met Shawn in person three months ago, Shawn? Yeah, I think it was towards the end of June that we met for the first time in person. Yeah. We also had the opportunity to have Scott Mills Pow, who actually puts all this content into play for all of you and the three of us together for the first time in late June. That's what we've been dealing with over the last year and a half, two years. Let me get real in terms of the Asian-American community so I want to set everything right. One. I am in no way a spokesperson for all Asian-Americans, all Asian people, all Chinese people everywhere, not trying to say that. However, in the United States and I'm going to keep my comments to the United States, although I think this can be applicable to other Asian communities outside the US, I have witnessed, I have seen anti-Black racism. I myself have more than likely said and perpetuated anti-Black racism in my life. I'm not proud of that, but I think that I need to own that. I need to own that I have been exposed to anti-Black racism among Asian-Americans that I know in my community, in my family, in ways that are both macro and in microaggressions in certain comments or certain beliefs. I think there's a very real thread of anti-Black racism among some Asian Americans, not all but some Asian-Americans that we don't like to talk about, that is difficult to talk about especially I think when you're trying to figure out how to create unity and solidarity. But I think if we don't talk about these things, and I mentioning anti-Black racism among some Asian Americans because especially in light of these viral videos of Black people harming Asian-Americans during COVID-19, one of the things that's emerged is this false belief that the majority of anti-Asian racism and anti-Asian violence is happening at the hands of Black people. Now I think it is true that some Black people have harmed some Asians and that is terrible and that is reprehensible. But that doesn't mean, one, that all Black people hate Asians or two, that the majority of harm that Asian-Americans are experiencing during COVID-19 are happening by Black people. Statistically speaking and there are many studies, you just have to go to the website Stop AAPI to find some of these studies. The studies have shown that 76 percent of the racism are happening against Asians by white people, specifically white men. Again, this is a difficult thing to talk about. The reality that, "Yes, we are seeing videos of Asian people being harmed by Black people. But we're seeing that for a reason. We're seeing that because we are already in the United States prime to think about Black people associated with brutality and criminality and so these videos that play over and over again, even though it's the same video. There was a very terrible video of a Filipino woman being kicked by a Black man in New York City and then there are two security guards who watch and don't intervene. That video I think especially because of the two security guards who don't intervene, got a lot of attention. But in communication and journalism studies, what they've shown is that when we watch that video and we see it played out on TV, in the news, on social media and it may be playing 10 times in a day, your friend sends you the video, that because of the underlying white supremacy and racism that's happening in the United States, our brains aren't registering that video as a single video being played 10 times. Our brains are registering it as, "Oh, that's 10 discrete times that I'm watching 10 different Blackmen attack 10 different Asian women." It's creating this false impression, false narrative of Black harm against Asian victims when that's not the case. I'm just going to pause there and maybe see what Shawn, you think about all of this. Yeah. Thank you for unpacking all of that, Jennifer because you made a lot of very very important points, of course, as you always do, that's why I'm doing this work with you. I'd also like to start off by saying that and I hope I've been clear about that in through anti-racism 1 and anti-racism 2, the same dialogue that I'm not the mouthpiece for every person of African descent in this country and beyond. I mean not even close so yeah, let's just get that straight. But my experience and I do have many experiences in this country and I do have something to say that matters as well matters just as much as Jennifer and anyone else. I do like to talk as well, about the systems that have put in place in this country that have, in many regards almost pitted people of African descent against folk of Asian descent in this country. But it all points back to the same place, and that is that institution, that foundation, that structure of White Supremacy. Going back centuries now, I too Jennifer growing up, I remember the Anti-Asian jokes in my communities, the derogatory words. Definitely thinking about the lusting and fetishization of women of Asian descent, particularly by black men, so on and so forth. I grew up in Illinois. I grew up around many Filipino communities and Korean communities. I've always had many who I thought were friends growing up of Asian descent, but there was tensions, there were rifts, there were prejudices, if you will, and we can't get around that. They were there and they're still there and I think you and I having these types of very open conversations are very important because it goes back to anti-racism I and anti-racism II. We're not having conversations, we haven't been having the conversations over centuries that we should have been having on a regular basis, and here we are. I agree with everything you've said, and I'm also very happy and it warms my heart that you will allow yourself to be vulnerable and have these types of discussions because they're important. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that we discussed this before too Sean. Racism isn't an identity category. It's not an easy thing for me to say, "Yeah, I've perpetuated anti-black racism in my life," that is not a thing I'm proud of. It's the thing that I worked really hard now in my life to work against, and I think that's the thing. Anti-racism is the thing that we do. It's not an identity category, which means all of us can choose this work, and part of choosing the work is recognizing where the hard parts are. Recognizing the places that we feel a sense of guilt or shame and then not letting that stop us because I think that's another roadblock. Another roadblock is like, I'm embarrassed, I'm ashamed to admit that I may have used the n word at one time in my life. I'd love to know your thoughts on that. The other thing is, I don't want to over apologize and I mean that not in the defensive way, but in a way that's like, I need to recognize, own and move forward. But I don't want to make this about me. I don't want to be like, I am now recovering anti black racists. Therefore, every black person I encounter, I'm going to be like, "I'm so sorry that I used the N word at one time in my life. Let me apologize." Because that's not helpful. Let me tell you right now, Black folk, they're not going to want to hear that. They're going to be like what is wrong with this sister right here, why is she doing this? The same if I came to your communities like, I use some really derogatory categorizations of folk of Asian descent before it, they don't want to hear that. The work that I'm doing now, this is how I'm correcting all of that and being able to look at myself in the mirror and think about how and what I have to do to be better to everyone. Yeah. I do think, and I'd love your thoughts on there, Sean. I do think that like recognizing when we've committed harm, whether that harm was intentional or not. That's the tricky thing because I think there are times when we have really good intentions and we inadvertently cause harm, and I know that myself like I get defensive. I feel like but I didn't mean that. That wasn't my intention, I'm a good person and it's really easy to feel that you give that non-apology like, well, I'm sorry if you're offended. I think as much as we can to dig deep and trying here, that we have caused harm to someone. Yeah. Again, it depends on what your relationship is to the person. If it's someone you love and someone who's basically giving you the gift, I would argue, the gift of of repair, the gift of saying, Jennifer, here's how you've harmed me, and this is a real-world example. A friend of mine wasn't race related, but I accidentally caused him harm, and the next day he told me when you said this, this is how it made me feel. My first reaction was you've taken that totally out of contents. But I didn't say that out loud. What I heard was, I have caused my friend pain. I may not have intended to, but I've causing him pain and so I apologized, and I said I'm really sorry. Because what is most important to me is my relationship with my friend rather than my ego, and my apology allowed us to have a larger conversation and allowed him to hear where I was coming from. For him to say I overreacted and then for me to say no. No, you experienced harm, and I love you and I care about you, so how can I meet you where you're at? Wow, that's wonderful and amazing story here because I had a similar incident happen recently where someone that I've been friends with for about 35 years, recently in this year started addressing myself and another very dear African-American friend of mine by calling us the inward. Now, this person is not African-American, but he's also not a person of White European descent either, but it really hurt me and it took me a while to come to terms like, why is he saying that all of a sudden, and my other friend noticed the two so and so's using this word. Now, what do you think about that? I'm like, I think it's very problematic, particularly because this isn't the way he's ever talked to before. Now all of a sudden in 2021, this is what you come up with? It was really problematic, but then when I finally got through the roadblock because it caused a roadblock to where I can't even deal with this right now, it hurt me so much in it. It caused me to remove this person from communication for awhile. When I did finally come to terms like, I'm going to see this person soon, we need to work through this. The first thing I did is I apologize to him if for any way he felt that I was being negligent of our friendship over the summer or I am distant, but I told them because I have been distant and here's why, but you don't deserve that. I should have talked about this weeks ago when it first happened, but it did not go the way it went with you and your friend. I thought I was going to open up into a larger discussion and a moment of healing and a moment of knowing and learning. Because to me it was like, well, this is what I do is a teachable moment. Obviously, I don't think he knows anything about the history of this word. I tried to explain that and it just didn't end well. It ended with him saying, well, it's been 35 years. I guess this is just where it ends and it's not just me. It ended a friendship with many other people who were going to be like, what have you done? You can't do that, but I think what I got out of your experience is the fact that you and your friend were able to listen to each other and allow that. It sounds so easy sometimes just listening to each other, but sometimes that is the hardest thing that we can do because we feel embarrassed. I know he felt embarrassed when I called him out on this and I know it hurt him when I called him out on this, but I thought that we could get past it like, look, I get it. You're hurt, but I'm hurt too. You hurt a lot of people. You hurt my mother. You hurt my ancestors. You can't go around using that word because you think it's cooler chic or whatever your reasoning is, but we have to be able to listen to each other. I've been saying this quite a bit over the last months, especially as that. This moment that we're having in our society is very unique. They all are. There's a lot of intersecting things going on right now that have always been going on, but this is a very unique moment that deserves a very unique new set of responses. I think a newer and much more unique set of compassion towards each other. That's what we really need to see and we hope these courses will help everyone get to that place. They're helping me to get to that place, just working through them. I'm like, wow, I need to give an offer, a completely different level of support, compassion, and empathy towards everyone right now. Well, I saw a comment and a question shown which is, I think you're showing care and compassion for yourself. I think setting boundaries and being able to clearly say to somebody, it's not okay. What you're saying, how you're treating me is not okay for me. It's not okay for other people. Again, that's a gift too. We talked a lot about council culture and color culture. I'd really love us to reframe. This has an ethics of care and responsibility. In terms of like, again, you gave your friend a gift to say, here's how I'm feeling. Here's the strength of our relationship and I'm giving you this gift to heal me. You began with an apology. Again, that's a really remarkable thing. You began with opening yourself up with vulnerability. Here's my question. Because 35 years is a long time for a friendship. Would you be open to try and do repair work with your friend at a future point? What would it look like for repair work to happen with your friend? I'm not going to say that I wouldn't be open to that. It would have to be something in the future, because I'm at the point right now where it's a bit much. I can't have this stunt any of the other real work that I have, and other relationships that I've fostered right now. What it would look like, he would need to really educate himself. I sent him the links to our courses as a final gesture to him and just let him know I hope you get the help that you need right now, because I know you're in a really painful place, and I've been there, and good luck to you. So I sent them links to our courses there for free, but there it is. He's got to do some work. He's got some work to do. I'm doing my work, he hasn't done any work, and I know he hasn't in so many different levels, and complexities, and nuances, that we don't even have to get into, but the brother needs to do some work, and until I hear and see that he's done some work, that he's put some things into action, I can't rock with him right now. Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate you sharing all of this, because this is not easy. It's not easy to talk about these things. I'm a glass half-full person. I hope he is watching this, and that whether it's two, three years from now, and that maybe that repair process is possible. And if not then it's okay. It's okay. Difficult navigation. Yes. And that's the thing. Roadblocks don't have to be fixed. Again, I love metaphors. There is a pothole in the road. Obviously fixing the pothole makes the road smoother, but you just have to figure out, are you going to go over the pothole, are you going to go around the pothole, are you going to get into the pothole and then possibly a dent to your car? In other words, your job is not necessarily to fill the pothole or to call the city to fill the pothole. Your job is to get moving. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Wellness and self-care I think needs to be navigated. When we're considering roadblocks, what are the roadblocks to doing this type of work? Well, sometimes Jennifer, the roadblock is pure exhaustion. I got to pull the car over at a rest stop and take a break. I'm having to do that right now, and got to take a break with this person right now because there's nothing else I can possibly do, and that's fine, and it's okay to be tired. We can't take on every battle. You know how many times I'm in a grocery store or somewhere and I hear something where I feel like ugh, I need to interject on that right now because this person or these people do not know what the heck they're talking about, and they're saying some really, really hurtful things. But that may not be the space that I need to intervene in at that time, because maybe it's not safe, I have to be very, very aware of my surroundings. Getting tired, getting sleepy plays all into this when you're at the wheel, and sometimes you just need to take a break, you need to pull over, but eventually you are going to have to get back on that road. Yeah. You can't just stay there. Yeah. If you're going to do this work, it does mean you got to move forward somehow, right? Yeah. I know some people could be hearing this, especially depending on what your financial situation, your class background, what part of the country you're from, whether you're even in a country where single ownership of cars is a norm, so I get it. We're using very US-centric capitalist language. So really, and I'm not trying to be [inaudible] about this at all either, but I think the road, the journey metaphor, whether that's my bus, by car, by whatever means necessary that you're on this path, I just want to reiterate what Sean is saying, you got to take care of yourself. And there will be various roadblocks, and they'll be hard to figure out how do you navigate that roadblock. But the point is not to let it stop you. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Thank you for listening to us.
